Update. The Morris and Roberts Families not Penryn Castle.

Since I shared all the photos from these two Victorian Albums during August & September, one of my Twitter followers, David Wilson, has been trying to trace the family by piecing together the clues from the writing on the CDV cards and from what was written on the Album pages. What a splendid job he’s done by identifying the farming families of Morris to be the likely owners of these Victorian Albums, most definitely one of their descendants. It looks from the census records that they were at Nant Mawr Farm, Llanfair Talhaiarn, Nr Abergele, Denbighshire, Wales for several generations.

David started with sending me his rough family tree to try and tie up the names mentioned on the photos on the previous Penryne Castle Blog. Plus lots of other information that he had found. So with this I started a Family Tree for the Morris Farming Family from the Abergele area on Ancestry. I have gradually added more to this tree as I have confirmed the names. But my goodness I don’t envy researchers in Wales, what a challenge it is to sort out the Morris’s, Robert’s, Lloyd’s and Jones’s families in Wales. I have done my best to get this tree correct but am more than happy to be corrected. Please don’t just copy it on Ancestry thinking all is correct, you would need to send for many Birth, Marriage and Death certificates to confirm everything first.

Morris & Roberts Family History.

This is part of what I’ve found & added to the tree. Robert Morris was born in 1796 in Llanfair, Denbighshire, Wales. He died in 1865. When he was 33, he married Ann Lloyd in 1829 (Ann Robert’s was a Widow when she married Robert Morris . So now to find her maiden name? Was it Lloyd?….Update I’m sure it was.)

Robert Morris lived in Llanfairtalhaiarn, Denbighshire, Wales in 1841. He lived in Prysllygoed, Denbighshire, Wales in 1851.

Robert Morris and Ann Lloyd had the following children:

1) William Morris was born in 1830 in Llanfairtalhaiarn, Denbighshire, Wales (One of Twins. Robert is his Twin. ). He died on 22 Mar 1908 in Denbighshire, Wales. He married Hannah Jones on 29 May 1857 in Llangernyw, Denbighshire, Wales.
2) Robert Morris was born in 1830 in Llanfairtalhaiarn, Denbighshire, Wales (One of Twins. William is his Twin. ). He died in Jun 1891 in Denbighshire, United Kingdom. He married Anne Roberts on 30 Jul 1879 in Welsh Presyterian Chapel, Rhyl, Flintshire, Wales. (This ties in the Morris and Roberts names . Marriage in Rhyl Advertiser Aug 2nd 1879. Robert Morris to Ann Roberts . Also, Robert Roberts was the Registrar at marriage. )

“Uncle John LLoyd”

3) John Lloyd Morris (Photo above) was born in 1832 in Llanfair, Denbighshire, Wales. He died in Jan 1917 in Conway, Caernarvonshire, Wales (This is the most likely death BUT you would have to get a Death Certificate to confirm.). He married Grace Roberts on 19 May 1868 in St David, Liverpool, Lancashire, England.
4) Sarah Morris was born about 1834 in Llanfair, Denbighshire, Wales. She married William Jones on 4 February 1858 in Llanrwst, Denbighshire.

Here’s the direct link to the Tree on Ancestry for you to view: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/178508841/family/familyview?cfpid=112324960983&fpid=112325071632

A quick Screenshot, there are lots of the family branches I haven’t completed but I’m sure you can tell if you are related from looking at what is there, so do please take a look.

Here are some David’s notes that he sent me, as he was piecing the family together: 1. I think this farming family in 1851 maybe something to do with some of the pics. Robert Morris at Nant Mawr , Llanfair, Denbighshire with wife and children. Hope you can read it but there are twins, Robert and William born c1831. Another son may be called John Lloyd Morris.”
2. “1891 Census son Robert Morris (jnr) born c1830 now head of Nant Mawr. Note other names of John Lloyd Morris ( nephew) and Jane Roberts ( cousin) born c1839.

1851 Census
I found the Baptism record of the Twins, here they are centre of page William & Robert Morris.

3. “This ties in the Morris and Roberts names. Marriage in Rhyl Advertiser Aug 2nd 1879. Robert Morris to Ann Roberts.

See no 10 below for this Robert Morris’s parents marriage.: David said: “His son (above) also married an Anne Roberts!” on 30 Jul 1879 at the Welsh Presyterian Chapel, Rhyl, Flintshire, Wales.

4. David thought at first that the photo above dated 1867 of the 3 young men might have been the Twins & their brother but we are very doubtful about this now as the men are definitely younger than 30-37 in the photo “Lynn, wondering if this pic shows the Morris twins (Robert and William born c 1830 ) plus younger bro John Lloyd Morris who is mentioned on another card . If so, writer must be a grandchild of Robert or William Morris?

4. “By deduction, person noting pics is prob one of the children of twin Robert Morris (b1830 Nant Mawr).So either Robert Lewis Lloyd Morris 1905-1967, Mair Morris (later Paveley) 1911- 1949 or Enid Lloyd Morris 1907-1960(spinster). Enid lived in London for a time, died Mochdre aged 52.”

5. “Mention of “Aunty Hendra” prob Hannah Morris of “Hendre Isaf” farm at Llangernyw. She was the wife of the other twin, William Morris Can be seen on the 1861 and 1871 Census with family.
I thought more than likely female. But could be her sister, Mair, wife of James Wifred Paveley

6. “One name to add to the tree is twin William Morris’s wife. I said she was called Hannah and looking at their childrens births she appears to be (predictably) Hannah Jones. I think the Jones name cropped up on one of the pics?” Hannah Jones was born in 1836 in Llangerniew, Conwy. She married William Morris on 29 May 1857 in Llangernyw, Denbighshire. They had 3 sons & 1 daughter. She died in December 1900 in Denbighshire at the age of 64.

7. “Heres a bit more for your tree. Robert Lewis Lloyd Morris born 1905 married Constance Jane Bevan in 1931 in Birmingham. 2 daughters Alwen born 1933 in B’ham and Elizabeth M Morris born 1939 in Norwich
” Following this information as I slowly added to the family tree I found slightly different results, in that the couple Robert and Constance had three children, firstly Robert Llewellyn Morris in 1932, the year after their marriage, then Mary who was born and died in 1933, then Elizabeth M L Morris born in 1939 as David said in Norwich where the family were living as Robert was working as the Farm Manager on Wensum Mount Farm, Low Road, Hellesdon, Norwich, Norfolk in the 1939 Register.

8. “This was a surprise, On the 1939 Register . Robert Lloyd Morris born 1881 + wife Margaret + daughters Enid and Mair can be seen at 186 Archway Rd, Haringey, North London. Makes you wonder why they gave up farming in very rural Wales to become a Grocer in London?” From my further research I believe Robert’s middle name is ISAAC and not LLOYD, here’s what I think are his birth details: b.20 Jun 1881, Llanfair Talhaiarn, Denbighshire, Wales. This birth record matches that: MORRIS, ROBERT ISAAC ROBERTS GRO Reference: 1881 S Quarter in SAINT ASAPH Volume 11B Page 341

1939 register for Robert and Margaret Morris

Through my research I have since found that Robert Lloyd Morris, a first cousin of Robert Morris above and who was born in September 1870 in Llandudno, Caernarvonshire had married Emily Ellen Collyer on 27 December 1891 in Wandsworth, Surrey. She was born in London. They had four daughters and lived in the Wandsworth area of Surrey even though two of their daughters were born back in Wales. This Robert Morris became a Cab Driver. So even though I’ve not researched the family fully I suspect that possibly more of them ventured from Wales to London as they had family contacts there.

9. “Bit more digging! Trouble is there’s a few “Nant Mawrs” Theres a village and farm near Buckley but the Morris family Nant Mawr comes under Llangernyw or Llanfair near Abergele. Can see R.Morris there in 1922 and this obit for Mr Humphreys who owned the same farm, dated 1975 means he, R.Morris, must have left between 1922 and 1935?”

10. “Going way back, this could be the marriage of Robert Morris (b1798) He married widow Anne Roberts in 1829. Not sure if maiden or married name.” with further research I believe Ann Roberts here below, widow, was born Ann Lloyd. See no 3 with photo Above. David said: “His son also married an Anne Roberts!” on 30 Jul 1879 at the Welsh Presyterian Chapel, Rhyl, Flintshire, Wales.

I do hope that someone will maybe connect to this family of MORRIS it would be brilliant to find a descendant. That’s if you can work out if you are connected of course! What a huge puzzle to unravel!

11. “Found another name! When you know the (Welsh) name it’s much easier to read the “scrawl!” William Barnwell was the schoolmaster at Llangerniew (or Llangernyw) “Certainly William Barnwell was there in 1871 & 1881. Probably taught the Morris kids. His wife was Jane Georgina Regamey he married her 1853

Follower on Twitter David, also found this written about Mr Barnwell, who was the Head Teacher at Llangernyw National School. His wife was Jane Georgina Regamey he married her 1853. It’s likely he taught many of the Morris children. “Henry Barnwell died in December 1917 after 30 years as Head Teacher and Miss LJ Barnwell became temporary Head Teacher. In April 1919 William J Barnwell took over the school. He continued as Head Teacher until he was appointed to a boys’ school in Derbyshire in March 1933, ending the Barnwell family combined service to the school of 163 years.” : https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/search/archives/1784d2dd-0421-3c63-b9bc-c7699e71d239

Thanks so much to David for all his super research, I am very grateful & keeping my fingers crossed for a family descendant to show up!

Till next time then………..

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